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Thread: EC15B heavy start

  1. #1
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    Question EC15B heavy start

    Hi again,

    the -15B is in sleep mode for the winter, but one thing initiated this question.

    Being unused for 3weeks, I tried to start the engine. Key in and wait for a cpl sec., glow plug light off and turn. Low starter rpm, did not start. Another start effort now with a little bit more revs, but still not starting. 3rd effort and finally started.

    The main question is that what causes heavy start. Temp outside was typical Finnish +4C and that should not be an issue. The glow plugs have right resistance and are working ok. The battery is small but seems to put some 200+A out against a short circuit wire with a clamp ammeter. The ammeter has max. 200A and thus cant tell the top readings.

    Changed the hydraulic oil to -46 grade in summer and have started the engine multiple times. That should not affect starting.

    Also replaced a hydraulic hose serving the bucket tilt ram, hose being between the boom and dipper

    The only suspect is the starter, Bendix-unit and the wiring to the starter and engine ground terminal.

    Need to start the engine only after the winter so we have a plenty of time to quess what the cause might be.

  2. #2
    Looks slow but IS fast Muz's Avatar
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    The glow plug timer relay could also be faulty, shutting off too early to allow the glow plugs to heat up properly. TBH the batteries are too small they lose cranking power too easily when the temperature drops
    Please don't PM me for plant advice.. thanks Post in the forum where I will gladly help, as will many of our contributors.. as the info and responses will help lots of others, which is why we exist

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muz View Post
    The glow plug timer relay could also be faulty, shutting off too early to allow the glow plugs to heat up properly. TBH the batteries are too small they lose cranking power too easily when the temperature drops
    Yes, the glow plug relay allow only maybe 2..3 sec. heating and cuts off. Therefore I heat it up a cpl of times before trying to actually start. Will check where to get the g p r affordably. Tnx Muz

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattir View Post
    Yes, the glow plug relay allow only maybe 2..3 sec. heating and cuts off. Therefore I heat it up a cpl of times before trying to actually start. Will check where to get the g p r affordably. Tnx Muz
    replying to myself.

    the relay is set to have a 6 to 7,4 sec heating time. My 3 sec is out of spec. The relay most likely has some moisture/ water in it

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/11....html?page=141

  5. #5
    Looks slow but IS fast Muz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattir View Post
    replying to myself.

    the relay is set to have a 6 to 7,4 sec heating time. My 3 sec is out of spec. The relay most likely has some moisture/ water in it

    https://www.manualslib.com/manual/11....html?page=141
    Yeah lost count of the number of EC15's I have to 're glow' before starting beginning to wonder why I ever liked these
    Please don't PM me for plant advice.. thanks Post in the forum where I will gladly help, as will many of our contributors.. as the info and responses will help lots of others, which is why we exist

  6. #6
    Looks slow but IS fast Muz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattir View Post
    My 3 sec is out of spec. The relay most likely fooked
    FTFY
    Please don't PM me for plant advice.. thanks Post in the forum where I will gladly help, as will many of our contributors.. as the info and responses will help lots of others, which is why we exist

  7. #7
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    Talking

    4B7389BF-B87C-4088-A201-DC3D2DE4BD6A.jpgBB025B41-AD7B-4EE0-B875-29C95611662E.jpg

    Here it is. The screwdriver is pointing at the NGK glow timer circuit. The circuit diagram is available in the internet as well in case anyone wants to practise soldering and electronics troubleshooting. Measured all of the components and major differences were only in electrolytic capacitors. They tend to loose their capacity over the years.

    New complete timer is available at around 70...90€, so I will spend some time with this one and change the capacitors as I have a good supply of those.

    the other relay in the pic is the power relay that actually feeds the power to the glow plugs.

    The delay timer is behind the relay frame so one needs to dismantle the metal chassis. Only one bolt with 12mm socket need to be opened.

  8. #8
    Looks slow but IS fast Muz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattir View Post
    4B7389BF-B87C-4088-A201-DC3D2DE4BD6A.jpgBB025B41-AD7B-4EE0-B875-29C95611662E.jpg

    Here it is. The screwdriver is pointing at the NGK glow timer circuit. The circuit diagram is available in the internet as well in case anyone wants to practise soldering and electronics troubleshooting. Measured all of the components and major differences were only in electrolytic capacitors. They tend to loose their capacity over the years.

    New complete timer is available at around 70...90, so I will spend some time with this one and change the capacitors as I have a good supply of those.

    the other relay in the pic is the power relay that actually feeds the power to the glow plugs.

    The delay timer is behind the relay frame so one needs to dismantle the metal chassis. Only one bolt with 12mm socket need to be opened.
    Cool .. so you rekon its a fall off in capacitor performance that's the culprit ? How come an old radio still works after 40 years then for example ?
    Please don't PM me for plant advice.. thanks Post in the forum where I will gladly help, as will many of our contributors.. as the info and responses will help lots of others, which is why we exist

  9. #9
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Muz View Post
    Cool .. so you rekon its a fall off in capacitor performance that's the culprit ? How come an old radio still works after 40 years then for example ?
    Yes, that is the verdict of my one man jury until proven otherwise. The capacitance value of a capacitor decreases and as it has less capacitance, it takes shorter time to charge thus resulting in a shorter glow time.

    Electrolytic capacitors dry out over the years as they have liquid inside. The old radios have those as well but the age old radios (being as old as we are) have paper or mica insulated capacitors moulded in bitumen or parafin. Additionally there are ceramic caps. They last forever unless overheated.

    Will test my theory and replace the caps. when the right moment comes.
    Last edited by Mattir; 18-11-2017 at 02:57 PM. Reason: ceramic

  10. #10
    Looks slow but IS fast Muz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattir View Post
    Yes, that is the verdict of my one man jury until proven otherwise. The capacitance value of a capacitor decreases and as it has less capacitance, it takes shorter time to charge thus resulting in a shorter glow time.

    Electrolytic capacitors dry out over the years as they have liquid inside. The old radios have those as well but the age old radios (being as old as we are) have paper or mica insulated capacitors moulded in bitumen or parafin. Additionally there are ceramic caps. They last forever unless overheated.

    Will test my theory and replace the caps. when the right moment comes.
    I'm interested in your theory because I was trying to get an old ZX Spectrum going again a year ago only to come up against the same problem, in the end I binned mine and bought a replacement on Ebay for not a lot, to relive the days of my youth .. but the guy had replaced all the caps to make the thing work
    Please don't PM me for plant advice.. thanks Post in the forum where I will gladly help, as will many of our contributors.. as the info and responses will help lots of others, which is why we exist

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