Pumped-storage hydro dam schemes to store wind energy (Scotland)

[ianoz]

I ,on the other forum The science forum i believe , did miss read it . You said you miscalulated the size to loch lochie and 25 metres of water would have to be pumped out of the lochs to fill the storage . Your drawing which i posted below ,gives the impression to me loch lochie levels are higher than the views on the motor bike video . THe mountain on the far shore rises well up above the water level .. Your drawing shows the water lapping the top with very little freeboard .

So I am sorry your poor drawing gave me the wrong impression .

[Peter Dow]

I ,on the other forum The science forum i believe , did miss read it . You said you miscalulated the size to loch lochie and 25 metres of water would have to be pumped out of the lochs to fill the storage.

No need to go to another forum. It reads to me like you are thinking of the point I addressed at the end of my 2nd post in this topic, in this forum.

Loch Lochy and vicinity water flow control works

Here is an annotated satellite photograph of the land south from Coire Glas showing Loch Lochy, Loch Arkaig, the isthmus between the lochs, Mucomir where Loch Lochy empties into the River Spean before it flows on as the River Lochy, the Caledonian Canal and Fort William where the river flows into a sea loch.




Click to see larger image

New waterway

Loch Lochy is separated from a neighbouring loch, Loch Arkaig, by a 2 km wide isthmus, which I have identified on this map as "the Achnacarry Bunarkaig isthmus", after the local place names.

It ought to be quite straight forward to build a canal or culvert, to connect those two lochs. The idea is that the new waterway would be wide and deep enough, enough of a cross section area under water, perhaps hundreds of square metres, so as to allow free flow from one loch to the other, so as to equalise the surface elevations of the two lochs, so as to increase the effective surface area of Loch Lochy so as to decrease the depth changes to Loch Lochy when water flows in from the Coire Glas reservoir when it discharges water when supplying power.

Now, Loch Arkaig has a natural surface elevation of 43 metres and this would be lowered to that of Loch Lochy. The surface area of Loch Arkaig is given by wikipedia as 16 km^2 also, (though it looks to me somewhat smaller than Loch Lochy). In addition, partially draining Loch Arkaig to bring its level down to that of Loch Lochy will also reduce its surface area.

If say, the additional surface area of Loch Arkaig is about 10 km^2 added to Loch Lochy's 16 km^2 this would give an effective surface area of 26 km^2 and reduce the potential depth variation to

Potential depth variation of Loch Lochy + Loch Arkaig = 400 000 000 m^3 / 26 000 000 m^2 = 15.3 metres.

Without equalising the loch levels, the depth changes to Loch Lochy that would require to be managed may be potentially more like 25 metres than 15 metres. So the new waterway is an important part of the new water flow control works that Coire Glas/Dow requires to be constructed.

So it is not so much a "miscalculation" as "it would be a different calculation" if Loch Arkaig was not to be connected to Loch Lochy to reduce the depth swings.

Your drawing which i posted below ,gives the impression to me loch lochie levels are higher than the views on the motor bike video . THe mountain on the far shore rises well up above the water level .. Your drawing shows the water lapping the top with very little freeboard .

So I am sorry your poor drawing gave me the wrong impression .

The "practically full to the brim" impression at the point marked "Mucomir" is deliberate. There is a hydroelectric dam at Mucomir where the water from Loch Lochy is dammed to extract power as it flows into the lower level of the River Spean before it flows on renamed as "the River Lochy".

Sure other parts of Loch Lochy's surrounding relief or topography, lie of the land, the mountains, or hills, on both shores of the loch, do rise much higher but the elevation of Loch Lochy cannot rise much above 29 metres without overtopping the dam at Mucomir. So there really is a brim there and that's the important point to point out in a diagram about water surface elevation control.

So making the correct points, my drawing is OK, actually.

[ianoz]

Seems like most of the other forums,Your posts stop on the 31st of march . What happened they all ban you? A lot of people don't seem to like you very much ,is the vibe i recieved . Sorry to keep you waiting for the reply . Internet dropped out just as i went to post .
Must go to bed now . Got a date with a truck in the morning that just isn't going to drive it'self .

[JD450A]

Put simply 3 fundimental factors shoot peters idea to bits....

1) Planning - Pretty poor and no where near complete enough to show to, almost anyone, It's simply too larger engineering project for the geology of the area... Piling the bedrock... Yea, but this requires drilling, etc and from my experinces this tends to increase the poruse qualitys of the rock. Unless you decide to use reverse circulation which is pretty expensive and problamatic.

Add to this alot of the diagrams are simply reversed to give cross sections.... not the best way to document things.... OS maps and actually going on site are a better idea.

2) Cost - Basically enlarging a project like this is like taking your bungalow and turning it into a 3 story building... Yes it will be jolly nice in the end and worth a hundred or two thousand more.... but it requires planning, Bigger/new foundations, more material etc.... Infact your just aswell tearing down the bungalow and starting from scratch.... sadly this dam is not a bungalow and the foundations have to stay the same.


3) enviroment.... Because hippys roam the earth moaning.... Just won't happen.


Put simply the ideas full of holes.... where is fill material gonna come from, who's gonna pay, the Independant scottish goverment


And before theres any moaning. No I did not even bother reading the whole of the nonsense. I ave better ways to spend my time

[245dlc]

Ugghghhh! I wish this thread was deleted.

[Wee Jim]

Ugghghhh! I wish this thread was deleted.

So do I but me we might now get mr Dow back to answer jack and prolong this thread!

[Muz]

Well there could be a case of a mod offering some dignitas style solution

[jackpreacher]

Well there could be a case of a mod offering some dignitas style solution

Muz, Kill it ! There's nothing that hasn't been said before!

[Muz]

Muz, Kill it ! There's nothing that hasn't been said before!

I think your post is a worthy discussion in its self Jack so I started a thread with it

here

[Gridley]

First post and it`s just to say I see you guys have met Peter.He`s quite a character.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ritain-229477/

[Muz]

Indeed

[B4D2USA]

Ugghghhh! I wish this thread was deleted.

I know I have been MIA, but I agree with Bert. Unless you agreed with the speculation, you were insulted by Peter. As said, quite a character.