temperamental engines

[panel bash]

Having several machines around my holding 3 excavators 2 dumpers etc used only occasionally. When colder weather arrives so do the starting problems, particularly on my beloved jcb 3 c11. I'm loathed to use the 'kiss of death' easy start, so thinking about alternatives decided to use pressurized pump up vessel containing road derv which has cetane value around 51-52 as opposed to the usual red around 45, there's a better mist too with these pump up containers. It has had a positive effect and so I bought another sprayer for petrol this time and used it on my tiller with good results. 2 questions I need answering why does easy start have such a detrimental impact on the engine' secondly is there anyone who might have an even better starting fluid suggestion to use instead of derv? bash

[Muz]

Easy start causes a fast detonation inside the cylinder and has a destructive effect because of this ... I hate the stuff. Even old engines should still start reasonably easily though if all the fueling is working as it should, or the glow preheat systems are functioning and the battery/engine cranking speed is correct.

That said .. Id certainly expect one or a couple more turns of the engine when its really cold before it fires


What exactly are the problems you experience ?

[panel bash]

temperamental engines

Thanks muz, I'v had the machine eight years now and I'm in love with it...wife hates it. Its a 72 model and has a British Leyland 38td engine and has no glow system. She fires instantly this time of year even when not started for months indicating fuel delivery o.k, its when cold the problem starts. It has new heavy duty battery good ccs, the crank is a bit sluggish though compared to my other machines..probably starter wants reconditioning . I have noticed on the steering column a sort of plunger device...long seized but appears to assist cold start, has a container where fluid would go, presumably driver would squirt in something whilst turning over. ...A little story, I had to laugh, overheard at an auction recently two old boys who operated these machines back in the 60-70is recounting how they would sometimes start fires underneath to get some 'heat into the engine' to start them... ahh those where the days. Back to easy start When I have used it the engine makes horrible knocking/rattling sounds for about 5 seconds before it passes out of the system seemingly stripping internal lubrication as it goes....hate to think whats going inside'deeply upsetting' and do engines become addicted or is it a myth? Thanks bash.

[ianoz]

Mate , A starter motor rebuild will probably make a world of difference .The Canister you are talking about i think is Ether .

[panel bash]

temperamental engines

Thanks for info mate, 'Ether' isn't that what easy start is, I couldn't possibly torment my baby with that gunk again. There must be another way, I,v described the improvements using derv in my pressure spray. Somebody out there must have another liquid or gas I can pump in 'child friendly ' BashomebodyUOTE=ianoz;11152]Mate , A starter motor rebuild will probably make a world of difference .The Canister you are talking about i think is Ether .[/QUOTE]

[Muz]

Older diesel engines often used excess fuel devices, but it was still the same fuel, it just allowed the pump to deliver more fuel before firing, or in others you pumped it in manually.

Yes easy start is ether based and makes the engine fire with a crack as its highly volatile

[Stock]

Diesel engines are compression fired so in laymans terms as the pressure rises in the cylinder (due to the piston moving towards the head with both valves closed ) the temperature increases (Boyle's law ). then at about 10 degrees before top dead centre (piston up to the max ) the diesel is injected in a fine mist and boom power is generated.......


Now the use of ether in a diesel engine usually results in a pre-detonation denoted by a loud knocking sound. Now depending on what engine is fitted there will be an excess diesel setting on the injector pump. A Lucas Cav pump requires the throttle to be left in the idle position during the starting process and any manipulation of the throttle lever will override the excess diesel on the pump.

On a mimtec pump there is a push button to activate the excess diesel and on other lucas pumps there is a lever on the bottom side of the pump for excess diesel.

Now most perkins engined and IH tractors has a heater in the inlet manifold that was fed from the injector return line for fuel and there is a position that the ignition key must be turned too to get it to work. looks like this..........


Now I am assured that the lynx brand of deodorant is brilliant at starting lazy diesels due to the high content of hydrocarbon in the propellant used .................

[panel bash]

temperamental engines

Thanks Stock and rest of fellas for useful input . I'm taken with the Lynx alternative, have crates of this stuff ...years of unused x mass gifts staked up- just doesn't suit me. The holding will have a smell a bit different now instead chicken shit..Lynx! could turn a few heads as well. The wife might even begin to like 'old faithful'. I guess the thread has run its course now, just one question unanswered though Is easy start addictive' for diesel engines??

[Stock]

What happens is the pre-detonation usually breaks the top compression ring which in turn reduces the compression ratio. this then makes it virtually impossible for the engine to be started normally.

Another old trick I learned is to get a clothes hanger cut out the hook and twist, purloin a piece of towling material denim also works well especially the seams. Roll up the material tightly and wrap the clothes hanger abound it, but make sure it will fit into the fuel tank. Dip it in let it absorb some diesel.

Remove the flexible pipe from the inlet manifold light the fuel soaked cloth and place close to or in the manifold and crank the engine. this usually will result in an old engine firing up...............one way or other......................

[jackpreacher]

Another old trick I learned is to get a clothes hanger cut out the hook and twist, purloin a piece of towling material denim also works well especially the seams. Roll up the material tightly and wrap the clothes hanger abound it, but make sure it will fit into the fuel tank. Dip it in let it absorb some diesel.

Remove the flexible pipe from the inlet manifold light the fuel soaked cloth and place close to or in the manifold and crank the engine. this usually will result in an old engine firing up...............one way or other......................

Now now Stock....what about your official position as H&S officer for this forum....hmmmm??..I think that's two things you've posted in the last couple of months that proves your Avatar to be a perfect fit ..

[jackpreacher]

..hang on a mo'....what's happened to the 'Burning Man'..?

[panel bash]

stock's great idea!

...yes stocks 'fire to fire' idea has great merit,and of course the buzz word for health and safety in those times used to be called 'common sense'. So being up all night thinking about this new fire technology idea, I thought can it be modified and brought into the 21st century!, at last I came up with the solution...a butane gas torch! Instead of going to the bother of ripping up your denim jeans just shove this down the manifold and give it a blast...its so more convenient as well! and with health and safety in mind strap a fire extinguisher to your back just in case things go wrong!

[grifferr]

Hi this may be a silly question but are you using the excess fuel button on the side of the injector pump.

[panel bash]

temperamental engines

Opened the bonnet and checked out fuel pump but could not see anything that looked like access fuel facility there. I did notice for the first time though on the air inlet manifold a small electrical device. It is disced shape about 1.25" diameter looks like a possible heater but currently isn't connected. Could be similar to what Stock was talking about. Will investigate further. Thanks for your input

[grifferr]

Opened the bonnet and checked out fuel pump but could not see anything that looked like access fuel facility there. I did notice for the first time though on the air inlet manifold a small electrical device. It is disced shape about 1.25" diameter looks like a possible heater but currently isn't connected. Could be similar to what Stock was talking about. Will investigate further. Thanks for your input

If the pump is an inline pump ( 4 injector pipes along the top) it should have an excess fuel button. Look where the stop cable goes to it pulls on a lever. At the pivot point of the lever should be a button maybe covered by a rubber gaiter. To use the excess fuel button first set the revs to full then press the button. turn the key and when the engine starts reduce the revs and button should have come out. Just a little warning sometimes the button gets stuck in which means the engine will be reving. If this happens pull the stop. You have to pull the button out with some grips move the stop lever while doing this and it should come out easy. These bmc engines were excellent starters