Volvo EC15B Buggered

[Muz]

Muz, just to let you know that Diamond Diesels will supply a reconditioned crankshaft for approx. £500.00 plus VAT. They haven't got one in right now but they do get them.

Nice one .. certainly an improvement on the previous state of affairs ... not sure if its worth me rebuilding that engine now ... but fek .. your thread here is as good as a workshop manual on it fella

[jackpreacher]

Feb 2013

Muz, just to let you know that Diamond Diesels will supply a reconditioned crankshaft for approx. £500.00 plus VAT. They haven't got one in right now but they do get them.

[jackpreacher]

....so you have a spare injection pump
J

[Muz]

Yep .. sure is mate . I gave up in the end

[wee_gus]

bloody hell muz thats bad craic like!
can believe you cant get another crank for it, suppose its another way of the stealers making the money

[Muz]

Ok so the new engine , another L3E came from Diamond Diesels .. uk distrubuter for Mitsubishi stuff, and cost £1999 + VAT (20%). The guys said it was designed for a marine application, and I might need to change the exhaust manifold, otherwise it would be ok, and TBH it was going to give me lots of spare bits, like a starter motor, which would cost me £450 service ex anyway .. so I wasn't too unhappy, although I still think its crap how much a new crank costs, and Volvo dont even list it as a replacement part



Well it turned out there was a lot different about it, just small changes that had been made after two/three years of the production run, but nothing that couldnt be overcome, firstly the bell housing had to come off. The hydraulic pump mounts onto its own bell housing which bolts to a plate behind the fly wheel, so the flywheel had to come off too, not a problem as it was different to mine and would need to be changed anyway, as mine had the reciever to take the pump drive coupling, I checked the teeth on the crown ring and that was different too although the same physical size, so that had to changed as well, if I was going to use the new starter on the new engine, which I was, so the starting/cranking speed was going to be a little slower on the new model BUT .... here was the big problem, the fly wheel is held on by just 4 high tensile bolts, once I cracked them off, two came out no bother, but one was a little tight, and the 4th very tight all the way out.

Hoping a simple thread clean would work , I fixed the back plate on and changed a few other parts around elsewhere before returning to the crank to mount the old flywheel and thought, hmm.. this isnt right.. its a brand new engine with a twelve month warranty and I shouldnt have to be doing anything here so I stopped and phoned Diamond Diesels .. Here is the email I got back from them

Good Morning Muz

Thanks for the photo’s, we have never had this issue before on any engine, when bolts have been removed!
Can you please advise on the following points:

1- What was the bolt un-done with?
2- If bolt was stripped on removal then why was the rear plate fitted? Instead of the job stopping?
3- Having myself just removed a flywheel from another engine from this batch, there is no thread lock used and the bolts once cracked spin out as finger tight.
4- The damage to us upon measuring bolts and flywheels ,looks to be that this bolt has been over torque upon flywheel re-fitting.
5- What torque was / going to be used?
6- Are the bolts used fitted with hand tools or pneumatics?

This has raised concerns on our behalf, please can you advise accordingly.

Many thanks and best regards

*********

So I could see what they were thinking .. what had I done to the engine ?

So I replied with this


Hi ****

Just to confirm your questions


1- What was the bolt un-done with? The bolts were undone by me with a half inch drive socket and ratchet
2- If bolt was stripped on removal then why was the rear plate fitted? Instead of the job stopping? I assembled the back plate as the logical step before attempting to mount the existing flywheel from my own engine which has a different cross section due to the application, with the hope that there may just be some swarf left in the bolt hole on the crank, and one of my clean pre existing bolts may have started into the hole by finger
3- Having myself just removed a flywheel from another engine from this batch, there is no thread lock used and the bolts once cracked spin out as finger tight. Agreed 2 others did, a 3rd one was a little stiffer, but not damaged like the one in the photo
4- The damage to us upon measuring bolts and flywheels ,looks to be that this bolt has been over torque upon flywheel re-fitting. I did NOT refit the flywheel as I thought it best to raise the concern with you first, as evidently, it was not just a matter of some swarf in the bolt hole being the problem
5- What torque was / going to be used? According to a sheet I was due to contact Volvo for these settings in due course
6- Are the bolts used fitted with hand tools or pneumatics? hand tools

When examining the other bolts earlier as I mentioned above, the hole opposite the burred one is a little stiffer than the other two, on the other two they finger all the way in, but opposite the burred one is a little stiffer than that suggesting its specification/tolerance is slightly different to the other three also.

I hope you find this helpful, although frankly I am a little dismayed at your suspicion that I am at fault, I can appreciate why, but I can assure you categorically, that I have not attempted to re assemble the flywheel, there has obviously been a factory assembly problem, and a resultant fault that may never show, had it not been for the fact that the fly wheel had to be removed. Further, I can advise this is not the first L3E I have had problems with, we had a 1.5 tonne digger a few years ago that took Volvo about 6 months to put right, because the engine had a governer fault from new.

Regards etc


So after much consideration they sent me this

We are in liaison with MEE / MHI over this issue.
But in the interim as a gesture of good will from DDL, please send the complete engine back to DDL depot, once received we will send a new replacement engine to you.
The carriage costs to be covered by yourselves at £65 ex-vat for engine from DDL.
We will pursue a warranty claim with MEE for this engine, and dependant on their decision we will then contact yourselves regarding payment.

Please can you advise accordingly.

Best regards


In other words .. we'll send you another engine, submit yours for warranty which will have no chance, and bill you accordingly. ... Yeah right I thought .. little me fighting against them .. you know whos gonna win that dont you ?

So suitably enraged (the fooking new engine was still bolted to its delivery pallet !!) I took it to my local (very good) machine shop for a second opinion and examination before sending it off .. at a cost of £65 to me :angry:.

They rekoned it could be sorted in an hour for £60 .. so rather than all the pissing about I got Diamond to phone the shop and they convinced them the easiest solution was for them to cover the repair cost and give me the engine back and thats what we did.

I wasnt 100% happy because I still had a fly wheel bolt going into a slightly looser hole , but I just locktighted it and didnt crank it up to the full 85Nm torque and it seems fine

What annoys me though is that it was clearly an assembly fault but diamond diesels were in complete denial, and assumed I had fooked it up .. nice one eh ?

[245dlc]

Sorry about your engine problems I'll be watching this thread with great interest as I'm looking for a mini-excavator in the next while.

[Muz]

Well .... howd it go ? how much ? what problems? exact same unit ? etc etc ?

Very good question !! got the new engine and hit a whole bunch of problems .. such as a stripped crankshaft bolt when I took the fly wheel off to change it for mine .. I am tempted to post a whole new thread about this when I have more time

[Garry]

Just ordered the new engine today

Well .... howd it go ? how much ? what problems? exact same unit ? etc etc ?

[Muz]

It really is unbelievable .. actually I think its more to do with Volvo's supplier arrangements, in that they restrict their suppliers in the after market dont you think ?

Just ordered the new engine today

[Dan]

what has the world come to that this sort of repair just gets 'thrown away' ???

It really is unbelievable .. actually I think its more to do with Volvo's supplier arrangements, in that they restrict their suppliers in the after market dont you think ?

[Muz]

Ok Ive merged a couple of threads together here to keep this all together

[Muz]

So here are the damaged big ends .. you can see the heat discolouration on the crank .. needless to say the shells were shot ,.. and the engine rattled like a good un when it was running although only one piston had actually buggered shells, the other two were ok .. also one of the mains had begun to pick up,.. but just a little.. however the big shock is that this is an ureparable engine by many counts .. utter garbage ? a piston and shells and a crank .. come on what has the world come to that this sort of repair just gets 'thrown away' ???

[Muz]

The end story

Ok I have an Volvo EC15 engine that has run a big end on piston No 3 .. the machine has gone over on its side more than once , and that big end has obviusly run out of oil and got heated ... the crankshaft is beyond grinding so thicker shells are not going to work either .. Volvo supply .25 and 0.5 over originals, but the crankshaft would have to be ground beyond that to get back to good .. so in other words its a gonner

My machine shop quoted me £1200 for a new shaft every where else £1400 and a 3 month wait ..Volvo themselves wont even sell you one ... the engine is only a little Mitsibishi L3 3 cylinder too .. even at £1200 .. by the time I got new shells a new piston, new gasket set and oil pump its gonna be over two grand

I discover I can buy a marine version which I'll need to swap manifolds on for 2k + VAT .. so its a no brainer .. I just cant believe Volvo dont fix 'em ,.. they just throw them away and fit new .. i'll post some pics of the heated pistion when I get back to my shop and collect the bits I left with them for sizing .. In the end .. not a happy chappy

[Muz]

Doesnt look like it Ok looks like I'll be breaking an engine for spares then