Volvo EC15B cutting out

[Mattir]

I've recently bought an EC15, so have been reading through this forum to see if any horrors await me in the future! I have a load of small niggles with my machine, and will start a thread on it shortly.

But, with regards to this unit.

Muz, do you still have the "ECU" which you removed the potting compound from? Part of my job is electronics and PCB design, as you mentioned, this looks to be a very simple circuit. If I had access to an example (or even decent photos of the front, back, with each component value visible), I could likely reverse engineer it to produce a low-cost alternative.

The PCB itself would generally cost around $1. Most components could be changed to surface-mount, which simplifies the board layout significantly as well as reducing its size and cost. Other than the larger black component which I can't see clearly (maybe a relay?), I imagine there is less than £3 of components on that board. The electrolytic caps would be the biggest component expense.

An enclosure would be the most expensive part for a unit like this. To keep the IP rating especially, likely £5-10 (reducing the PCB size will help this quite a bit.

If I reproduced this, I'd go with a PCB mounted connector (like every other ECU in existence!), which reduces the risk of fatigue on the wires as they enter the unit. Again, a cost increase, especially for sealed connectors, but wouldn't be necessary.

It's probably achievable for around £20 per unit as a kit. More for assembled units as the labour would have to be covered. But in either case, it would be plenty less than the £120-odd that alternative units have been found for!

I have been playing around with electronics as well. The ECU circuit is rather simple and it would be easy to replicate. Your cost estimate is realistic. Spare parts are normally priced with a remarkable multiplier making their price astronomical compared to cost of components.

could contributebto the reverse-engineering on a voluntary basis.

[xp677]

I've recently bought an EC15, so have been reading through this forum to see if any horrors await me in the future! I have a load of small niggles with my machine, and will start a thread on it shortly.

But, with regards to this unit.

Muz, do you still have the "ECU" which you removed the potting compound from? Part of my job is electronics and PCB design, as you mentioned, this looks to be a very simple circuit. If I had access to an example (or even decent photos of the front, back, with each component value visible), I could likely reverse engineer it to produce a low-cost alternative.

The PCB itself would generally cost around $1. Most components could be changed to surface-mount, which simplifies the board layout significantly as well as reducing its size and cost. Other than the larger black component which I can't see clearly (maybe a relay?), I imagine there is less than £3 of components on that board. The electrolytic caps would be the biggest component expense.

An enclosure would be the most expensive part for a unit like this. To keep the IP rating especially, likely £5-10 (reducing the PCB size will help this quite a bit.

If I reproduced this, I'd go with a PCB mounted connector (like every other ECU in existence!), which reduces the risk of fatigue on the wires as they enter the unit. Again, a cost increase, especially for sealed connectors, but wouldn't be necessary.

It's probably achievable for around £20 per unit as a kit. More for assembled units as the labour would have to be covered. But in either case, it would be plenty less than the £120-odd that alternative units have been found for!

[Mattir]

I appreciate this is an old thread, but while trying to diagnose the same issue on a customers EC15b I stumbled across this thread.

My customer said that the engine kept cutting out when it got hot, so I started down the overheating route (blow out rad, check thermostat etc). Rad was full of leaves etc so after blowing out and running for over an hour, the machine didnt cut out. Customer came to collect it, next day, shut down again, back to workshop.

Again in the workshop it ran fine, until i lifted up and slammed shut the rear counterweight. The shock of shutting it was enough to kill the engine. It happened everytime.

Anyway, long story short, it was the 'ECU' at fault. Disconnecting it does indeed solve the issue. I also had an attempt at fixing the board to no avail, but I did come up with a cheap workaround/alternative option for others with this issue.

Leave all sensor wires connected as they should be. Completely remove the ECU (but make sure to reattach any other earth wires which shared the mounting bolt). On one of the two plugs that connect to the ECU is a terminal that earths when either the oil pressure or temp sensor fire (perhaps all sensors share this terminal but those were the only 2 i tested for), run a wire from this terminal to the negative side of a 12v buzzer. You have two options as to where to take a live feed for the buzzer from, 1) ignition fed live (buzzer will sound as soon as ignition is turned on as there is no oil pressure - buzzer stops when engine is running unless there is an issue) or, what I done, 2) tap into a alternator switched live (only live when engine is running)

Doing option #2 means the buzzer won't opperate when the ignition is switched on, but sounds when there is an issue. This allows you to switch off the engine manually before any harm can be done to the engine.

On the back of the plate where the ECU is mounted is another module, one of the wires coming out of this module is live only when the engine is running, I just scotchlocked into this wire to give my 12v buzzer its live feed. There are probably other wires you can tap into but that was the first one I found. I positioned the buzzer inside the left control pod, beside the throttle lever so it can easily be heard even at max rpm.

A buzzer can be brought for under £10 from most motor factors. This saves you a HUGE amount compared to the actual ECU and helps removes the risk of engine damage by just disconnecting the ECU.

Hope this helps someone somewhere with the same issues.

Thanks for documenting this.

[Muz]

I appreciate this is an old thread, but while trying to diagnose the same issue on a customers EC15b I stumbled across this thread.

My customer said that the engine kept cutting out when it got hot, so I started down the overheating route (blow out rad, check thermostat etc). Rad was full of leaves etc so after blowing out and running for over an hour, the machine didnt cut out. Customer came to collect it, next day, shut down again, back to workshop.

Again in the workshop it ran fine, until i lifted up and slammed shut the rear counterweight. The shock of shutting it was enough to kill the engine. It happened everytime.

Anyway, long story short, it was the 'ECU' at fault. Disconnecting it does indeed solve the issue. I also had an attempt at fixing the board to no avail, but I did come up with a cheap workaround/alternative option for others with this issue.

Leave all sensor wires connected as they should be. Completely remove the ECU (but make sure to reattach any other earth wires which shared the mounting bolt). On one of the two plugs that connect to the ECU is a terminal that earths when either the oil pressure or temp sensor fire (perhaps all sensors share this terminal but those were the only 2 i tested for), run a wire from this terminal to the negative side of a 12v buzzer. You have two options as to where to take a live feed for the buzzer from, 1) ignition fed live (buzzer will sound as soon as ignition is turned on as there is no oil pressure - buzzer stops when engine is running unless there is an issue) or, what I done, 2) tap into a alternator switched live (only live when engine is running)

Doing option #2 means the buzzer won't opperate when the ignition is switched on, but sounds when there is an issue. This allows you to switch off the engine manually before any harm can be done to the engine.

On the back of the plate where the ECU is mounted is another module, one of the wires coming out of this module is live only when the engine is running, I just scotchlocked into this wire to give my 12v buzzer its live feed. There are probably other wires you can tap into but that was the first one I found. I positioned the buzzer inside the left control pod, beside the throttle lever so it can easily be heard even at max rpm.

A buzzer can be brought for under £10 from most motor factors. This saves you a HUGE amount compared to the actual ECU and helps removes the risk of engine damage by just disconnecting the ECU.

Hope this helps someone somewhere with the same issues.

Good post Thank you ( and welcome also )

[tim_poole247]

I appreciate this is an old thread, but while trying to diagnose the same issue on a customers EC15b I stumbled across this thread.

My customer said that the engine kept cutting out when it got hot, so I started down the overheating route (blow out rad, check thermostat etc). Rad was full of leaves etc so after blowing out and running for over an hour, the machine didnt cut out. Customer came to collect it, next day, shut down again, back to workshop.

Again in the workshop it ran fine, until i lifted up and slammed shut the rear counterweight. The shock of shutting it was enough to kill the engine. It happened everytime.

Anyway, long story short, it was the 'ECU' at fault. Disconnecting it does indeed solve the issue. I also had an attempt at fixing the board to no avail, but I did come up with a cheap workaround/alternative option for others with this issue.

Leave all sensor wires connected as they should be. Completely remove the ECU (but make sure to reattach any other earth wires which shared the mounting bolt). On one of the two plugs that connect to the ECU is a terminal that earths when either the oil pressure or temp sensor fire (perhaps all sensors share this terminal but those were the only 2 i tested for), run a wire from this terminal to the negative side of a 12v buzzer. You have two options as to where to take a live feed for the buzzer from, 1) ignition fed live (buzzer will sound as soon as ignition is turned on as there is no oil pressure - buzzer stops when engine is running unless there is an issue) or, what I done, 2) tap into a alternator switched live (only live when engine is running)

Doing option #2 means the buzzer won't opperate when the ignition is switched on, but sounds when there is an issue. This allows you to switch off the engine manually before any harm can be done to the engine.

On the back of the plate where the ECU is mounted is another module, one of the wires coming out of this module is live only when the engine is running, I just scotchlocked into this wire to give my 12v buzzer its live feed. There are probably other wires you can tap into but that was the first one I found. I positioned the buzzer inside the left control pod, beside the throttle lever so it can easily be heard even at max rpm.

A buzzer can be brought for under £10 from most motor factors. This saves you a HUGE amount compared to the actual ECU and helps removes the risk of engine damage by just disconnecting the ECU.

Hope this helps someone somewhere with the same issues.

[Muz]

au$ 660 FFS what a ****ing rip off .... I can categorically say that I will NEVER own one of these sh1tboxes ... or any Ovlov m/c come to that ..... too risky

You must've saved a few folk some bucks over the years Muz ..... and probably changed a few peoples minds about what to buy too

Well .. I quite like the EC15 machine.. although its quite old now its a well balanced digger for a 1 tonner ... quick and a decent amount of power, its still a match for any modern hardware ... just a shame Volvo rip off their customers soooo much

[v8druid]

au$ 660 FFS what a ****ing rip off .... I can categorically say that I will NEVER own one of these sh1tboxes ... or any Ovlov m/c come to that ..... too risky

You must've saved a few folk some bucks over the years Muz ..... and probably changed a few peoples minds about what to buy too

[Muz]

Volvo here in Australia wanted 660$ plus postage to bring it from Europe as they don't stock the part and the lady in parts assured me if i buy it from volvo it will be "original" and well worth the money.

holy shit ..... thats expensive ! for all the basic electronics that it is too ? ... I like their sales patter 'well worth the money'

Thanks for your help and sharing your findings. big help

Tim.

No problem dude ..

[Astro1218]

That sounds wise to me .. at least we saved you half the cash to do it ... I shall go to my bed tonight happier in the knowledge I have helped another lost soul in the plant world and as far as Volvo is concerned .. they can have it good style, and maybees be a bit more reasonable with their spare parts costs

Hi Muz,

Also have the exact problem with my EC15B , been slowly getting worse and worse . replaced ignition barrel and shut off solenoid on fuel pump and did not fix the shutdown problem then i found your posts on this site, been very helpful!

I only have to touch the wires going into the unit for it to kill the engine. About to order a new one from USA for 140$. Volvo here in Australia wanted 660$ plus postage to bring it from Europe as they don't stock the part and the lady in parts assured me if i buy it from volvo it will be "original" and well worth the money.

I may try bypass as you did while i wait for the part to come. royal pain in the anus !

Thanks for your help and sharing your findings. big help

Tim.

[Muz]

Unfortunately I'm too honest to not mention this "modification" when selling the machine.

After sleeping over this I figured that lacking this unit probably costs me more in selling price negotiations than the 149 EUR it costs online, so I just ordered a new unit.

That sounds wise to me .. at least we saved you half the cash to do it ... I shall go to my bed tonight happier in the knowledge I have helped another lost soul in the plant world and as far as Volvo is concerned .. they can have it good style, and maybees be a bit more reasonable with their spare parts costs

[blobo]

.. bear in mind this thread is open for all to see .. so if you know the person you sell it to, maybes best replace it

Unfortunately I'm too honest to not mention this "modification" when selling the machine.

After sleeping over this I figured that lacking this unit probably costs me more in selling price negotiations than the 149 EUR it costs online, so I just ordered a new unit.

[Muz]

Thank you Muz for this excellent summary.

I had exactly the same issue. I'm a private owner and had used the machine to do all the landscaping around my house and now that I wanted to sell the machine, it started randomly cutting out... Murphy's law.
After some fiddling around I found out that cables would not do the trick reliably, but whenever I pushed on the ECU plastic case, the engine cut out immediately -> bad solder joint or something.

That's when I started looking on the Internet and stumbled across your video, then this thread. Great info, thanks.

For now I'm running the machine without this "ECU" - I find it funny how Volvo even call this an Engine Control Unit when it's merely a transistor and a couple of discrete components - maybe it's part of their strategy to justify the ridiculous price.
Even Mitubishi call this "Engine Stop-Timer Control" which is a closer match, and their price is a lot lower, but still ridiculously high for the components and intelligence in the box.

Still will have to see if I can sell the machine without "ECU" or if I will have to replace it. Personally I'm only worried about not shutting down on loss of oil pressure (but what's the risk of that?) and don't worry about water temp or clogged air filter.

Positive side effect now: Looks like my ECU had been worn out (aged capacitors?) because it used to shut down the engine upon a cold start, when the oil pressure needed a moment to build up. I'm talking about slightly over one second here, not a huge amount of time. That problem also is gone now, of course :-)

Thanks again for sharing the information and photos,
Thomas

No Problem and welcome also .. Thats the only thing you need to worry about, if it slips a fan belt, (or something like that) it will boil over, and that ofcourse risks damaging the engine, so its a chance you take .. bear in mind this thread is open for all to see .. so if you know the person you sell it to, maybes best replace it

[blobo]

Thank you Muz for this excellent summary.

I had exactly the same issue. I'm a private owner and had used the machine to do all the landscaping around my house and now that I wanted to sell the machine, it started randomly cutting out... Murphy's law.
After some fiddling around I found out that cables would not do the trick reliably, but whenever I pushed on the ECU plastic case, the engine cut out immediately -> bad solder joint or something.

That's when I started looking on the Internet and stumbled across your video, then this thread. Great info, thanks.

For now I'm running the machine without this "ECU" - I find it funny how Volvo even call this an Engine Control Unit when it's merely a transistor and a couple of discrete components - maybe it's part of their strategy to justify the ridiculous price.
Even Mitubishi call this "Engine Stop-Timer Control" which is a closer match, and their price is a lot lower, but still ridiculously high for the components and intelligence in the box.

Still will have to see if I can sell the machine without "ECU" or if I will have to replace it. Personally I'm only worried about not shutting down on loss of oil pressure (but what's the risk of that?) and don't worry about water temp or clogged air filter.

Positive side effect now: Looks like my ECU had been worn out (aged capacitors?) because it used to shut down the engine upon a cold start, when the oil pressure needed a moment to build up. I'm talking about slightly over one second here, not a huge amount of time. That problem also is gone now, of course :-)

Thanks again for sharing the information and photos,
Thomas

[Mattir]

Well so do you ... under a different name

Yes, the one I have has been built in France and is a relative to the Pel...

[Muz]

My friend has one of those b**wjobs... as he calls it

Well so do you ... under a different name